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Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
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ferndaleflyer wrote:So? Charge their credit card because they didn't show, they tell credit Co they weren't their and charge is removed. So how does that help? Joe resident down the street that pays his taxes here can't get a spot because daddy big bucks reserves a spot for 2 weeks a year in advance then don't show, how does that work? Looks like the out of staters are playing the system, maybe. How about charging out of staters more and limiting how far in advance everyone can reserve? Who has a real solution? As I said above, I pay to get spots in private parks so I have never had a problem
You put a big fat box to check that says: I have read, understand and agree to the cancellation policy and the hefty penalty for no shows!
Basically you have all campers agree to the policy or camp elsewhere.
Keep in mind the idea is not to penalize people. The goal is to eliminate vacant sites. If you can't make it cancel.
If you have a break down call and say you'll be late. But no call no show is a flagrant violation that will get you a fine/penalty.
Hopefully a strict substantial penalty will be a strong deterrent to reduce/eliminate no shows and vacant sites.
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Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
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goducks10 wrote:Part of the problem is understaffing across the board. From State workers to camphosts to administrating companies like CLM. Last year we stayed at our go to CG several different times. It's a chain of small dry campgrounds that follow a river. 9 total. There's usually a camp host at every CG. Last year there was one for the whole 9 CG's. He was underpaid and way way overworked.
Same thing in the State parks we frequent. Fewer hosts and the kiosks are open far less as well.
I'm sure there's an easy way to handle all the res issues but it takes more people than they have.
Rules are not enforced and some some CGs just don't care if a person doesn't show up. They got their money. I don't think any of the management firms are looking at ways to make a profit off no shows.
I agree the CG workers aren't pressed about the issue. It's the campers that need to demand more policies to eliminate vacant sites.
We all know demand has increased and it is very difficult to book a site in many places.
It is very aggravating and frustrating to go to a CG that is supposed to be totally booked only to observe the place is relatively empty due to no shows. How many people stayed home because they believed there were no sites available? When in reality there were plenty of sites available.
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Durb
NW
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bigred1cav wrote:If I pay in advance and am unable to show, why is it an offense. They have my money and no maintenance fir my empty site
Durb wrote:ferndaleflyer wrote:only let them book a week or so in advance. First come first served.
This may work well for many on this forum. A young couple that wants to take their kids camping would probably not go without a reservation as they have to schedule vacation time from their jobs and make numerous preparations. Driving 4 hours to find no sites would be a hardship. That is why it is such a shame to see the sites in state parks go empty because people are gaming the reservation systems. Nothing will change until not showing up the first night hits the gamers really, really hard in the wallet.
Seriously? You justify locking up empty sites at state parks because you paid for them? Therein lies the problem.
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austinjenna
Columbus, Ohio
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Quote:This may work well for many on this forum. A young couple that wants to take their kids camping would probably not go without a reservation as they have to schedule vacation time from their jobs and make numerous preparations. Driving 4 hours to find no sites would be a hardship. That is why it is such a shame to see the sites in state parks go empty because people are gaming the reservation systems. Nothing will change until not showing up the first night hits the gamers really, really hard in the wallet.
The issue is you think the CG's really care and they don't. They have the money from the site so it makes no difference to them if the site is occupied or not. It actually works out in their favor because there is no cleanup from the site, less people using the bathrooms, showers, swimming pools etc..
In todays world you need to make reservations in advance - at least here in Ohio for the state parks as there are no walk ins allowed and all sites must be booked online.
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Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
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austinjenna wrote:Quote:This may work well for many on this forum. A young couple that wants to take their kids camping would probably not go without a reservation as they have to schedule vacation time from their jobs and make numerous preparations. Driving 4 hours to find no sites would be a hardship. That is why it is such a shame to see the sites in state parks go empty because people are gaming the reservation systems. Nothing will change until not showing up the first night hits the gamers really, really hard in the wallet.
The issue is you think the CG's really care and they don't. They have the money from the site so it makes no difference to them if the site is occupied or not. It actually works out in their favor because there is no cleanup from the site, less people using the bathrooms, showers, swimming pools etc..
In todays world you need to make reservations in advance - at least here in Ohio for the state parks as there are no walk ins allowed and all sites must be booked online.
I agree the CG's aren't very concerned about the vacancies, but the public (other campers) need to create pressure to change their thinking and force them to become aware of the issue.
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goducks10
There
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CG's have budgets based on occupancy expectations. If the budget is based on say 50% filled for the whole callander year with summer peaking at 100% and winter and 0%-? then it's of no issue if they have no shows. No shows are not cancellations. More times than not a cancellation can be put back into the system and rebooked. Every rebooking makes $8-$10 or abouts for fees. So thats bonus money if the site gets rebooked.
No shows are simply part of the original perceived budget.
It would be hard to deal with no shows depending on how each CG is set up with the computer system. !st off a no show isn't noticed until the next day or latter. Then someone has to notify someone else that there's a no show and that person has to start the process of trying to get it back in the system. Problem with that is it may only be a res for 3 nights. So by the time the 3rd night rolls around the sites back in the system but the 4th night is booked by someone else.
It's just too much work to deal with no shows. There's only so much that can be done before the Cg starts to lose money. How much time and how many more people on the payroll would it take to make a few extra $ to help someone get a site for 1-2 nights after a no show?
On occasion we've booked a site that was #2-3 on our preference list hoping that when we show up our 1st choice was still open. It's worked more times than not.
No one lost money on that transaction. We just tell the host we moved to a different spot and they change the tags. Easy peasy.
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Lantley
Ellicott City, Maryland
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goducks10 wrote:CG's have budgets based on occupancy expectations. If the budget is based on say 50% filled for the whole callander year with summer peaking at 100% and winter and 0%-? then it's of no issue if they have no shows. No shows are not cancellations. More times than not a cancellation can be put back into the system and rebooked. Every rebooking makes $8-$10 or abouts for fees. So thats bonus money if the site gets rebooked.
No shows are simply part of the original perceived budget.
It would be hard to deal with no shows depending on how each CG is set up with the computer system. !st off a no show isn't noticed until the next day or latter. Then someone has to notify someone else that there's a no show and that person has to start the process of trying to get it back in the system. Problem with that is it may only be a res for 3 nights. So by the time the 3rd night rolls around the sites back in the system but the 4th night is booked by someone else.
It's just too much work to deal with no shows. There's only so much that can be done before the Cg starts to lose money. How much time and how many more people on the payroll would it take to make a few extra $ to help someone get a site for 1-2 nights after a no show?
On occasion we've booked a site that was #2-3 on our preference list hoping that when we show up our 1st choice was still open. It's worked more times than not.
No one lost money on that transaction. We just tell the host we moved to a different spot and they change the tags. Easy peasy.
Fines and penalties will cover any administrative cost associated with dealing with the offender. The idea is once in place the policy will be a deterrent. Hand out a few fines and the no shows will cease.
Imagine how many people would abuse handicapped parking if there were no fine. In my area its $350.00 fine to park in an ADA spot.
It was not always $350.00 but it was increased until they got results.
Same with passing a school bus. All buses now have cameras $300.00 fine if you pass the bus when its' red lights are on.
The fines pay for the cameras, staff and then some.
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toedtoes
California
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As the OP is speaking of Arizona State Parks specifically...
This is their mission statement:
Managing and conserving Arizona's natural, cultural and recreational resources for the benefit of the people, both in our parks and through our partners.
If the campsites sit unoccupied, paid for or not, they are NOT for "the benefit of the people".
This argument that "as long as they get the money who cares" is only valid if were private property. It's not. It's government land held for all people to enjoy.
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goducks10
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Lantley wrote:goducks10 wrote:CG's have budgets based on occupancy expectations. If the budget is based on say 50% filled for the whole callander year with summer peaking at 100% and winter and 0%-? then it's of no issue if they have no shows. No shows are not cancellations. More times than not a cancellation can be put back into the system and rebooked. Every rebooking makes $8-$10 or abouts for fees. So thats bonus money if the site gets rebooked.
No shows are simply part of the original perceived budget.
It would be hard to deal with no shows depending on how each CG is set up with the computer system. !st off a no show isn't noticed until the next day or latter. Then someone has to notify someone else that there's a no show and that person has to start the process of trying to get it back in the system. Problem with that is it may only be a res for 3 nights. So by the time the 3rd night rolls around the sites back in the system but the 4th night is booked by someone else.
It's just too much work to deal with no shows. There's only so much that can be done before the Cg starts to lose money. How much time and how many more people on the payroll would it take to make a few extra $ to help someone get a site for 1-2 nights after a no show?
On occasion we've booked a site that was #2-3 on our preference list hoping that when we show up our 1st choice was still open. It's worked more times than not.
No one lost money on that transaction. We just tell the host we moved to a different spot and they change the tags. Easy peasy.
Fines and penalties will cover any administrative cost associated with dealing with the offender. The idea is once in place the policy will be a deterrent. Hand out a few fines and the no shows will cease.
Imagine how many people would abuse handicapped parking if there were no fine. In my area its $350.00 fine to park in an ADA spot.
It was not always $350.00 but it was increased until they got results.
Same with passing a school bus. All buses now have cameras $300.00 fine if you pass the bus when its' red lights are on.
The fines pay for the cameras, staff and then some.
If the reserver doesn't show they lose all their camp fees. Why should they have an additional fee charged? Just so someone else can have the spot? And how would anyone know that someone didn't show up for the spot they wanted?
Most all the spots I camp at in Oregon state that if you don't show by the checkout time the next day you forfeit the site. So one days wasted. Then what process would have to be in place for someone to get that spot?
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toedtoes
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goducks10 wrote:
If the reserver doesn't show they lose all their camp fees. Why should they have an additional fee charged?
Because, apparently that isn't enough of a deterrent for people who repeatedly book and don't show. Adding a penalty may have them decide that their money is better spent on reservations they actually plan on keeping.
goducks10 wrote:
Just so someone else can have the spot?
Absolutely. Why should everyone else be denied the use of the campsite because of one selfish person.
goducks10 wrote:
And how would anyone know that someone didn't show up for the spot they wanted?
Most all campgrounds with policies regarding no shows allow for walk ins. So someone traveling through, or a local willing to drive out, can see that the site is unoccupied and have a place to stay.
In addition, you can call the ranger station and ask if there is any last minute opening for the campground.
goducks10 wrote:
Most all the spots I camp at in Oregon state that if you don't show by the checkout time the next day you forfeit the site. So one days wasted. Then what process would have to be in place for someone to get that spot?
The reason for this rule is because otherwise people would book the site from Wednesday the 1st thru Wednesday the 15th and only use it for the two Friday thru Sundays. Leaving the site locked up for the weekdays. So folks who want to camp Monday the 6th thru Friday the 10th can't get a campsite even though there's one sitting unused the entire time.
As for what process for someone to get that spot, there are three:
1. Again, folks can drive up on the chance that there was a no show or last minute cancellation;
2. Call the ranger station and ask;
3. In most cases, that site is re-released online starting on the 3rd (2nd day after the no show). So for that fourteen day reservation, the campsite is available for online reservations for the 3rd thru the 15th.
And yes, I have done just that. Had a campground book up solid months in advance and then had a site come available two days prior to my time off. So I was able to go camping after all.
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