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2oldman
NM
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Fossil fuels still receive massive government subsidies.
The Environmental and Energy Study Institute found that the US government alone spends $20 billion every year on direct fossil fuel subsidies. This has been going on for a LONG time.
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JRscooby
Indepmo
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way2roll wrote:toedtoes wrote:No one is forcing anything. No one is forcing you to go to a dealership and buy an EV today or tomorrow.
Stop fussing over stuff that isn't happening. Stop creating conspiracies that aren't there.
Ah but you're wrong. The government has pumped Billions into the EV industry making Musk the richest man in the world. Where does that money come from? It comes from tax payers. So yeah, I am being forced to contribute whether I want to or not. And if you haven't missed it by the dozens of pages of these arguments, that's the biggest rub. It is being forced - literally forced, because EV's couldn't make it on their own for the past 100 years. Capital injection from taxpayers backed by cherry picked, half baked science, forcing auto makers to bend to your will is not the way to go about it all in the mantra of saving the planet. But Ev's won't save the planet. This isn't about being resistant to change, or being dumb or being a science denier. The contrary - it's about peeing down my back and telling me it's raining while forcing me to pay for it.
Quote: because EV's couldn't make it on their own for the past 100 years.
Have you ever considered that maybe "EVs couldn't make it" because of the subsidies the same government has given oil companies for well over 100 years?
Quote:cherry picked, half baked science
It has been proven that in-house science of the oil companies have known for decades that burning oil is harmful to life on earth. But to protect profits company management buried those reports, and paid other scientist to cherry pick what is published to keep population in the dark.
Will EVs save the planet? Maybe not. But it is dead certain sure that continuing as we have gone in the last 100 years will destroy it.
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toedtoes
California
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Geez, that's why you are constantly making a friggin stink about EVs? Because your tax dollars are being spent on it...
Get over it. Our tax dollars are spent on tons of stuff and no one person is EVER going to be happy with 100 percent of the way it's spent. And yes, we even pay into things that we have no desire to be a part of - big frickin deal.
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MFL
Midwest
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I hate to be the one to agree with way2roll, but I do. The rich, get filthy rich, and an industry that could not survive on its own, thrives, using our gov mint supplied tax dollars. The folks handing out these tax dollars also benefit. How...I think we know, without actually discussing it!
Another good example, the ethanol industry, which needs continuous subsidizing, to compete, compared to regular unleaded. We pay them, so they can sell cheaper ethanol fuel, which would not sell otherwise, if higher at the pump than regular.
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Latner
Indiana
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toedtoes wrote:Geez, that's why you are constantly making a friggin stink about EVs? Because your tax dollars are being spent on it...
Get over it. Our tax dollars are spent on tons of stuff and no one person is EVER going to be happy with 100 percent of the way it's spent. And yes, we even pay into things that we have no desire to be a part of - big frickin deal.
I wonder how you feel about reparations?
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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Lol, ya know the bs is getting deep when someone who’s piloting a 1975 Dodge RV is lecturing folks about EVs and the environment.
That’s the problem. Lots of idealists and almost as many who don’t practice what they preach in some attempt to make themselves appear one way when they act another or to make themselves sleep better at night.
Not unlike religion for many….
3 pages later, this thread still needs to be closed….
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Huntindog
Phoenix AZ
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2oldman wrote:Fossil fuels still receive massive government subsidies.
The Environmental and Energy Study Institute found that the US government alone spends $20 billion every year on direct fossil fuel subsidies. This has been going on for a LONG time. name some that can be verified
Huntindog
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2oldman
NM
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Huntindog wrote:name some that can be verified Seriously? You don't know fossil fuels are subsidized? I'm sure you can look this up yourself.
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way2roll
Wilmington NC
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toedtoes wrote:Geez, that's why you are constantly making a friggin stink about EVs? Because your tax dollars are being spent on it...
Get over it. Our tax dollars are spent on tons of stuff and no one person is EVER going to be happy with 100 percent of the way it's spent. And yes, we even pay into things that we have no desire to be a part of - big frickin deal.
Reading comprehension. It matters - or in this case maybe that's part and parcel of the problem. EV's were touted as green using parts of science and one fraction of the process of production to convince voters and those in power to dump a bunch of money into it. They aren't green and they won't save the planet. Full stop. I don't mind tax dollars being spent on things that actually benefit the general populous. That is not the case here. EV's don't solve a single problem - ecological or otherwise. They actually cause a lot of problems many of which are short to come with long term consequences. That is a big frickin deal if you actually care. Sounds like you don't and apparently can be easily relieved of your hard earned money without question. More status quo and "well that's the way it's always been" drivel to self sooth.
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ktmrfs
Portland, Oregon
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2oldman wrote:Huntindog wrote:name some that can be verified Seriously? You don't know fossil fuels are subsidized? I'm sure you can look this up yourself.
Hunting dog.
Drilling on gov't land is a boon for drillers, Drilling costs and lease costs are WAY less than private mineral rights. And since the holding are offan massive, the cost to pay our royalties (if there even are any) is way less than tracking mineral right ownership on townships of land and negotiating with EVERY mineral right holder,
And then the mineral right holder get money BACK from the gov't in the form of "depletion allowance" for what they have sold, doesn't matter if it is on public or private land.
Right now I'm getting 1 out of 5 barrels for our leases plus we got a sizeable amount up front even before drilling, way higher payout than the gov't gets on public lands. THAT is a SUBSIDY since the gov't isn't getting market prices for leases.
MANY MANY things one takes for granted today started with massive gov't subsidies. The IC industry is an example, many of the IC's and process development was funded either directly or through military contracts, and we all benefit.
GPS was/is a MASSIVE gov't subsidy, we all benefit from.
Cell coverage, again massive net gov't funding in the initial sales and leases for rights to put up towers. Way more received than paid for the leases. Weather they recieved the money from the gov't or ended up with way below market rates, it amounts to gov't funding, directly or indirectly.
There are those than fear or don't want change when technology advances, there are those who embrace it as early adopters, but we all eventually will end up having to live with it.
EV's are following the "Crossing the Chasm" model, early adopters, technology development, initial resistance, but once it crosses the "Chasm" into widespread acceptance, watch out, that's when it takes off like a rocket.
IMHO hybrids, either mild or plug in have crossed the chasm, All EV, not yet, but have great applicability for certain applications. Those that drive every day, but maybe 100-200 miles/day (delivery drivers, USP, mail etc.) or those of us who have/need two cars, one of which an EV offers great advantage in lifetime cost and our other vehicle, truck, car, etc. we can use for non EV applicable appliations, towing, long distance driving etc.
In the end, will EV's deliver on what people expect? Probably not everything, but long term there IMHO they will be a net positive.
Even today, for us even a plug in hybrid would (a) reduce our "fuel" costs and (b) virtually eliminate trips to the gas station (c) in many case better performance than a ICE comparable.
Even our "mild" hybrid paid back the initial cost difference ($1500) in 2 years with the 50% improvement in around town mileage, along with slightly better highway mileage and performance that blow the on hybrid out of the water.
When with EV's cross the chasm? Don't know but I'm sure they will
I can remember over the years people saying
a) I'll NEVER buy a car with a catalytic converter
b) I'll NEVER buy a computer, totally worthless
c) I see no need for a cell phone
d) Digital camera, a farce, nothing better than Kodachrome
e) Never buy a car with engine electronics, can't work on it
everyone can probably add to the list
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