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ktmrfs
Portland, Oregon
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Joined: 06/22/2005
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Been to china multiple times. Depends on where you are as far as visible polution as well as non visible but noticeable polution (eyes, lungs etc.) Some places are really bad, other places are comparable to most large U.S. cities.
But then in the U.S. places near coal fired plants have pretty bad visible and respiratory pollution as well. it's hard to clean up the pollution from coal fired plants, way worse than NG fired plants.
We had a relatively new coal fired plant about 150 miles from us. Every time we drove by it on our trips east the air was visibly darkened, sometimes pretty bad. Now that they have converted it to NG air is visibly clear whenever we drive by.
2011 Keystone Outback 295RE
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Durb
NW
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ktmrfs wrote:Been to china multiple times. Depends on where you are as far as visible polution as well as non visible but noticeable polution (eyes, lungs etc.) Some places are really bad, other places are comparable to most large U.S. cities.
But then in the U.S. places near coal fired plants have pretty bad visible and respiratory pollution as well. it's hard to clean up the pollution from coal fired plants, way worse than NG fired plants.
We had a relatively new coal fired plant about 150 miles from us. Every time we drove by it on our trips east the air was visibly darkened, sometimes pretty bad. Now that they have converted it to NG air is visibly clear whenever we drive by.
If you are referring to the Boardman coal fired plant, it closed two and a half years ago. Don't believe they ever converted to natural gas. The owner, Portland General Electric, closed the plant as it transitions to renewable energy sources, namely wind energy. The emissions of that plant were nothing compared to the sight of the hundreds of ugly wind turbines serving as a visual blight and destroying the view shed of nearby pristine country. Wind turbines have destroyed the beautiful vistas of the Eastern Columbia River Gorge. If the greenies weren't so anti fossil fuels, they would be protesting in the streets to remove the wind turbines.
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ktmrfs
Portland, Oregon
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Durb wrote:ktmrfs wrote:Been to china multiple times. Depends on where you are as far as visible polution as well as non visible but noticeable polution (eyes, lungs etc.) Some places are really bad, other places are comparable to most large U.S. cities.
But then in the U.S. places near coal fired plants have pretty bad visible and respiratory pollution as well. it's hard to clean up the pollution from coal fired plants, way worse than NG fired plants.
We had a relatively new coal fired plant about 150 miles from us. Every time we drove by it on our trips east the air was visibly darkened, sometimes pretty bad. Now that they have converted it to NG air is visibly clear whenever we drive by.
If you are referring to the Boardman coal fired plant, it closed two and a half years ago. Don't believe they ever converted to natural gas. The owner, Portland General Electric, closed the plant as it transitions to renewable energy sources, namely wind energy. The emissions of that plant were nothing compared to the sight of the hundreds of ugly wind turbines serving as a visual blight and destroying the view shed of nearby pristine country. Wind turbines have destroyed the beautiful vistas of the Eastern Columbia River Gorge. If the greenies weren't so anti fossil fuels, they would be protesting in the streets to remove the wind turbines.
When boardman was operating the "pristine view" down the gorge within 50 miles of Boardman was obliberated by the smog from boardman. It was hardly "pristine". Now at least the sky is clear all the way down the gorge. Oh..... it's worse, now the smog doesn't obsure the windmills!!!
PGE has two NG fired plants near boardman. Not sure if they were new plants replacing the boardman coal fired plant or reworking the boardman coal fired plant for NG, but non the less the coal fired plant(s) are gone and there is NG plants to replace it.
And from our traveling down the gorge, once boardman coal fired plant close, eureka, amazing difference in the air quality for 50+ miles around boardman
Don't know why wind turbines are painted white, it should be easy to make them less visible, not doubt. And it does distract from the view. However IMHO it's WAY better than the smog that enveloped the gourge from before boardman to north of tri cities on most days from the coal fired plant. We travel down that area dozens of times during they year and while boardman was operating we NEVER encountered anything resembling clean air, always either hazy or very hazy in that area. Not to mention the mercury emitted from coal fired plants.
Coalstrip in Montana with the coal fired plants is as bad or worse for smog and emissions.
I'll take the visual distraction from wind turbines any day over the smog from a coal fired plant.
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time2roll
Southern California
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No one developed asthma or died of lung issues due to the windmills. Just because your child does not struggle to cope with pollution does not mean thousands of others don't. Yet we still complain about the high cost of healthcare practically every day. There might be a better solution some day.
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Durb
NW
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ktmrfs wrote:Durb wrote:ktmrfs wrote:Been to china multiple times. Depends on where you are as far as visible polution as well as non visible but noticeable polution (eyes, lungs etc.) Some places are really bad, other places are comparable to most large U.S. cities.
But then in the U.S. places near coal fired plants have pretty bad visible and respiratory pollution as well. it's hard to clean up the pollution from coal fired plants, way worse than NG fired plants.
We had a relatively new coal fired plant about 150 miles from us. Every time we drove by it on our trips east the air was visibly darkened, sometimes pretty bad. Now that they have converted it to NG air is visibly clear whenever we drive by.
If you are referring to the Boardman coal fired plant, it closed two and a half years ago. Don't believe they ever converted to natural gas. The owner, Portland General Electric, closed the plant as it transitions to renewable energy sources, namely wind energy. The emissions of that plant were nothing compared to the sight of the hundreds of ugly wind turbines serving as a visual blight and destroying the view shed of nearby pristine country. Wind turbines have destroyed the beautiful vistas of the Eastern Columbia River Gorge. If the greenies weren't so anti fossil fuels, they would be protesting in the streets to remove the wind turbines.
PGE has two NG fired plants near boardman. Not sure if they were new plants replacing the boardman coal fired plant or reworking the boardman coal fired plant for NG, but non the less the coal fired plant(s) are gone and there is NG plants to replace it.
And from our traveling down the gorge, once boardman coal fired plant close, eureka, amazing difference in the air quality for 50+ miles around boardman
Don't know why wind turbines are painted white, it should be easy to make them less visible, not doubt. And it does distract from the view. However IMHO it's WAY better than the smog that enveloped the gourge from before boardman to north of tri cities on most days from the coal fired plant. We travel down that area dozens of times during they year and while boardman was operating we NEVER encountered anything resembling clean air, always either hazy or very hazy in that area. Not to mention the mercury emitted from coal fired plants.
Coalstrip in Montana with the coal fired plants is as bad or worse for smog and emissions.
I'll take the visual distraction from wind turbines any day over the smog from a coal fired plant.
Really? So much hyperbole and exaggeration. A single small coal fired plant polluted the air for 780 square miles in an area where the wind blows hard all the time? That is why the wind turbines are there. I too, traveled the gorge all the time as part of my job and never noticed the LA basin out there. Sometimes the air would be less clear, but that is from dust; a result of the farmers plowing their fields and the wind stirring it up. It is an agricultural area you know.
We camped at Boardman Marine and RV Park (very nice) numerous times before October 2020 when the plant closed. We were always graced with clear skies and beautiful sunsets; not a pool of smog.
There was a coal fired plant in Centralia, WA up north that converted to natural gas for financial reasons. I never heard anyone complain about a change in air quality as a result. The plant is in close proximity to two towns.
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Dadoffourgirls
China, MI USA
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Joined: 05/29/2003
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Turtle n Peeps wrote:...In any event, people don't think this can happen. I'm telling you it can with just a stroke of a pen. I haven't talked to anybody in Air Quality in a long time but last time I did the guy I talked to said CARB was trying to outlaw my 2006 John Deere tractor. I don't know about the rest of you but a 2006 tractor with 325 hours on it is brand new to me...
Turtle - I understand how you would feel if you had an outlawed JD. I am willing to help you out. I can assist you with compliance if the time comes. Maybe we could find a CyberTruck to tow it to the California border.
Maybe there will be a cash for tractors, where they pay you to get a new electric tractor?
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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Dadoffourgirls wrote:Turtle n Peeps wrote:...In any event, people don't think this can happen. I'm telling you it can with just a stroke of a pen. I haven't talked to anybody in Air Quality in a long time but last time I did the guy I talked to said CARB was trying to outlaw my 2006 John Deere tractor. I don't know about the rest of you but a 2006 tractor with 325 hours on it is brand new to me...
Turtle - I understand how you would feel if you had an outlawed JD. I am willing to help you out. I can assist you with compliance if the time comes. Maybe we could find a CyberTruck to tow it to the California border.
Maybe there will be a cash for tractors, where they pay you to get a new electric tractor?
Lol. Sad but, well, sad.
We should start a go fund me for all Californians that are stuck there and having their personal freedoms wiped out before their own eyes!
I’ll think of you guys while I’m using my 2 stroke weed whipper and gas powered mower!
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mkirsch
Rochester, NY
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Joined: 04/09/2004
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"All it takes is the stroke of a pen" works both ways.
Just because it's a law now doesn't mean they won't amend/repeal it and kick the can down the road when the deadline is looming.
Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four.
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goducks10
There
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Joined: 02/22/2010
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Durb wrote:ktmrfs wrote:Been to china multiple times. Depends on where you are as far as visible polution as well as non visible but noticeable polution (eyes, lungs etc.) Some places are really bad, other places are comparable to most large U.S. cities.
But then in the U.S. places near coal fired plants have pretty bad visible and respiratory pollution as well. it's hard to clean up the pollution from coal fired plants, way worse than NG fired plants.
We had a relatively new coal fired plant about 150 miles from us. Every time we drove by it on our trips east the air was visibly darkened, sometimes pretty bad. Now that they have converted it to NG air is visibly clear whenever we drive by.
If you are referring to the Boardman coal fired plant, it closed two and a half years ago. Don't believe they ever converted to natural gas. The owner, Portland General Electric, closed the plant as it transitions to renewable energy sources, namely wind energy. The emissions of that plant were nothing compared to the sight of the hundreds of ugly wind turbines serving as a visual blight and destroying the view shed of nearby pristine country. Wind turbines have destroyed the beautiful vistas of the Eastern Columbia River Gorge. If the greenies weren't so anti fossil fuels, they would be protesting in the streets to remove the wind turbines.
I find the view driving out near Boardman boring as heck. Miles of rolling brown hills.
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Durb
NW
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goducks10 wrote:Durb wrote:ktmrfs wrote:Been to china multiple times. Depends on where you are as far as visible polution as well as non visible but noticeable polution (eyes, lungs etc.) Some places are really bad, other places are comparable to most large U.S. cities.
But then in the U.S. places near coal fired plants have pretty bad visible and respiratory pollution as well. it's hard to clean up the pollution from coal fired plants, way worse than NG fired plants.
We had a relatively new coal fired plant about 150 miles from us. Every time we drove by it on our trips east the air was visibly darkened, sometimes pretty bad. Now that they have converted it to NG air is visibly clear whenever we drive by.
If you are referring to the Boardman coal fired plant, it closed two and a half years ago. Don't believe they ever converted to natural gas. The owner, Portland General Electric, closed the plant as it transitions to renewable energy sources, namely wind energy. The emissions of that plant were nothing compared to the sight of the hundreds of ugly wind turbines serving as a visual blight and destroying the view shed of nearby pristine country. Wind turbines have destroyed the beautiful vistas of the Eastern Columbia River Gorge. If the greenies weren't so anti fossil fuels, they would be protesting in the streets to remove the wind turbines.
I find the view driving out near Boardman boring as heck. Miles of rolling brown hills.
We'll have to agree we are different that way. Boardman has frontage on the Columbia River and is the gateway to the rolling dry wheat fields entering into Pendleton. The view behind of that country while entering the Blues is extraordinary.
I went onto Google Earth and counted the wind turbines visible from the freeway at Boardman - 186. That's right, 186 of the monstrosities built on wild open country.
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