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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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Joined: 05/06/2013
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^I get it. Whatever works best for you is what works best.
The big thing with moisture is volume introduced via external stuff (the wet ski gear) and the lack of good air circulation. The forced air furnace (mouse turd burner lol) does a lot to dry the air but trust me. Few people for a few days in cold weather in a TC will be a challenge to keep humidity and condensation under control. You can. It’s not prohibitive, just a bit of a challenge.
You can charge from the truck somewhat efficiently with a good size DCDC charger.
Still, your engineer sense should guide you from over complicating things like plumbing into the truck fuel tank. Besides those little heaters only use like a half gallon of diesel a day or something minuscule. Nothing a little fuel can and 5 min a day can’t keep full.
If I have any control over it I WILL be doing very similar to you again in the future. And having run a couple TCs thru the gamut from driving to AK to outrunning tornados in the Midwest and boonie docking in the Rockies and cascades, what you’re planning is a great setup.
Cheers!
* This post was
edited 05/04/23 04:43pm by Grit dog *
2016 Ram 2500, MotorOps.ca EFIlive tuned, 5” turbo back, 6" lift on 37s
2017 Heartland Torque T29 - Sold.
Couple of Arctic Fox TCs - Sold
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notsobigjoe
southeast
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Joined: 09/15/2016
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SkiBumAt50 wrote:Grit dog wrote:^your last sentence says it all.
You’re not going to do “better” than starting off with a 4 season camper. And with that it’ll handle below freezing temps and running water, to a point. Basement model TCs are decent here if they have or you can improve heated air exchange to the “basement”.
Reasonably the furnace will keep the camper warm down to single digit temperatures. But it will chew thru LP and battery power FAST.
Keeping the water on will just be a test. It’s not magic. But more challenging in below freezing temps. But you get what you put into it.
I was able to use our AF camper with no mods for better heat/air circulation in single digits at night 20s and sunny daytime but that was real close to the practical limit I’m sure.
A little diesel heater is a GREAT idea. And something I would do 100% if planning on any sort of regular cold weather use. And they’re relatively inexpensive. Just need to address the logistics and install.
For efficiency this would be your primary heat and the mouse turd toaster would be the redundant portion since it’s much less efficient.
An engine coolant radiator hookup in the camper is a bad idea. Scratch that one off the list. I suppose it’s possible but in no way practical. Same for the suggestion of plumbing from the truck diesel tank for a little add on diesel heater. Another solution that doesn’t solve a problem but only creates complexity and potential for failure points.
Thanks for the response. Yeah my reasoning for the Diesel heater is to limit what you are saying. One, if I can use diesel to supplement heat for travel, I can extend the time the generator can run. I've also seen some set ups with LiFePo batteries that use the truck to back up or primary charge the systems. My use case is 3 or 4 days at a time with a lot of travel in between so I mainly need 24 hours of boondocking typically.
I get your reluctance on complexity, and maybe I'm looking at it with my Engineer brain and thinking its just a matter of the right bits and pieces. I'll keep it in mind. Of course I'd do it in a way that didn't jeopardize the engine/truck systems (again more complexity).
What exactly is a diesel heater?
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jimh406
Western MT
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Joined: 06/11/2006
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notsobigjoe wrote:What exactly is a diesel heater?
It's just a small heater that burns diesel fuel. I think most people use them in tents.
'10 Ford F-450, 6.4, 4.30, 4x4, 14,500 GVWR, '06 Host Rainer 950 DS, Torklift Talon tiedowns, Glow Steps, and Fastguns. Bilstein 4600s, Firestone Bags, Toyo M655 Gs, Curt front hitch, Energy Suspension bump stops.
NRA Life Member, CCA Life Member
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mbloof
Beaverton, OR
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Joined: 11/27/2014
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notsobigjoe wrote:SkiBumAt50 wrote:Grit dog wrote:^your last sentence says it all.
You’re not going to do “better” than starting off with a 4 season camper. And with that it’ll handle below freezing temps and running water, to a point. Basement model TCs are decent here if they have or you can improve heated air exchange to the “basement”.
Reasonably the furnace will keep the camper warm down to single digit temperatures. But it will chew thru LP and battery power FAST.
Keeping the water on will just be a test. It’s not magic. But more challenging in below freezing temps. But you get what you put into it.
I was able to use our AF camper with no mods for better heat/air circulation in single digits at night 20s and sunny daytime but that was real close to the practical limit I’m sure.
A little diesel heater is a GREAT idea. And something I would do 100% if planning on any sort of regular cold weather use. And they’re relatively inexpensive. Just need to address the logistics and install.
For efficiency this would be your primary heat and the mouse turd toaster would be the redundant portion since it’s much less efficient.
An engine coolant radiator hookup in the camper is a bad idea. Scratch that one off the list. I suppose it’s possible but in no way practical. Same for the suggestion of plumbing from the truck diesel tank for a little add on diesel heater. Another solution that doesn’t solve a problem but only creates complexity and potential for failure points.
Thanks for the response. Yeah my reasoning for the Diesel heater is to limit what you are saying. One, if I can use diesel to supplement heat for travel, I can extend the time the generator can run. I've also seen some set ups with LiFePo batteries that use the truck to back up or primary charge the systems. My use case is 3 or 4 days at a time with a lot of travel in between so I mainly need 24 hours of boondocking typically.
I get your reluctance on complexity, and maybe I'm looking at it with my Engineer brain and thinking its just a matter of the right bits and pieces. I'll keep it in mind. Of course I'd do it in a way that didn't jeopardize the engine/truck systems (again more complexity).
What exactly is a diesel heater?
It is my understanding that much like a propane furnace a "diesel heater" (read - actually a furnace) draws combustion air from the outside and vents its exhaust to the outside.
The "flame" heats one side of a "heat exchanger" where cabin air is drawn in and blown out on the other side of it.
The CLAIMED current draw of some of the models available are less than the stock OEM Atwood/Suburban/?? propane furnaces.
- Mark0.
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notsobigjoe
southeast
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Joined: 09/15/2016
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mbloof wrote:notsobigjoe wrote:SkiBumAt50 wrote:Grit dog wrote:^your last sentence says it all.
You’re not going to do “better” than starting off with a 4 season camper. And with that it’ll handle below freezing temps and running water, to a point. Basement model TCs are decent here if they have or you can improve heated air exchange to the “basement”.
Reasonably the furnace will keep the camper warm down to single digit temperatures. But it will chew thru LP and battery power FAST.
Keeping the water on will just be a test. It’s not magic. But more challenging in below freezing temps. But you get what you put into it.
I was able to use our AF camper with no mods for better heat/air circulation in single digits at night 20s and sunny daytime but that was real close to the practical limit I’m sure.
A little diesel heater is a GREAT idea. And something I would do 100% if planning on any sort of regular cold weather use. And they’re relatively inexpensive. Just need to address the logistics and install.
For efficiency this would be your primary heat and the mouse turd toaster would be the redundant portion since it’s much less efficient.
An engine coolant radiator hookup in the camper is a bad idea. Scratch that one off the list. I suppose it’s possible but in no way practical. Same for the suggestion of plumbing from the truck diesel tank for a little add on diesel heater. Another solution that doesn’t solve a problem but only creates complexity and potential for failure points.
Thanks for the response. Yeah my reasoning for the Diesel heater is to limit what you are saying. One, if I can use diesel to supplement heat for travel, I can extend the time the generator can run. I've also seen some set ups with LiFePo batteries that use the truck to back up or primary charge the systems. My use case is 3 or 4 days at a time with a lot of travel in between so I mainly need 24 hours of boondocking typically.
I get your reluctance on complexity, and maybe I'm looking at it with my Engineer brain and thinking its just a matter of the right bits and pieces. I'll keep it in mind. Of course I'd do it in a way that didn't jeopardize the engine/truck systems (again more complexity).
What exactly is a diesel heater?
It is my understanding that much like a propane furnace a "diesel heater" (read - actually a furnace) draws combustion air from the outside and vents its exhaust to the outside.
The "flame" heats one side of a "heat exchanger" where cabin air is drawn in and blown out on the other side of it.
The CLAIMED current draw of some of the models available are less than the stock OEM Atwood/Suburban/?? propane furnaces.
- Mark0.
So it does not reduce o2 from the inside. That's pretty awesome, I'm surprised the industry isn't leaning that way.
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SkiBumAt50
Upstate NY
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Joined: 05/01/2023
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notsobigjoe wrote:SkiBumAt50 wrote:Grit dog wrote:^your last sentence says it all.
You’re not going to do “better” than starting off with a 4 season camper. And with that it’ll handle below freezing temps and running water, to a point. Basement model TCs are decent here if they have or you can improve heated air exchange to the “basement”.
Reasonably the furnace will keep the camper warm down to single digit temperatures. But it will chew thru LP and battery power FAST.
Keeping the water on will just be a test. It’s not magic. But more challenging in below freezing temps. But you get what you put into it.
I was able to use our AF camper with no mods for better heat/air circulation in single digits at night 20s and sunny daytime but that was real close to the practical limit I’m sure.
A little diesel heater is a GREAT idea. And something I would do 100% if planning on any sort of regular cold weather use. And they’re relatively inexpensive. Just need to address the logistics and install.
For efficiency this would be your primary heat and the mouse turd toaster would be the redundant portion since it’s much less efficient.
An engine coolant radiator hookup in the camper is a bad idea. Scratch that one off the list. I suppose it’s possible but in no way practical. Same for the suggestion of plumbing from the truck diesel tank for a little add on diesel heater. Another solution that doesn’t solve a problem but only creates complexity and potential for failure points.
Thanks for the response. Yeah my reasoning for the Diesel heater is to limit what you are saying. One, if I can use diesel to supplement heat for travel, I can extend the time the generator can run. I've also seen some set ups with LiFePo batteries that use the truck to back up or primary charge the systems. My use case is 3 or 4 days at a time with a lot of travel in between so I mainly need 24 hours of boondocking typically.
I get your reluctance on complexity, and maybe I'm looking at it with my Engineer brain and thinking its just a matter of the right bits and pieces. I'll keep it in mind. Of course I'd do it in a way that didn't jeopardize the engine/truck systems (again more complexity).
What exactly is a diesel heater?
There's actually two versions out there. First, is what everyone is kind of discussing. It uses diesel and an air to air heat exchanger to heat. So completely isolated external heating. The second, is used often in large commercial over the road trucks, and can have a variety of functions, including cab heat and engine preheat. It's a diesel water heater that heats the engine coolant.
Living in NY and parking overnight occasionally outside, I'll definitely be putting a diesel preheater on any Diesel truck I own. Some even have a neat app, where you can remotely start the preheat, and when you jump in your truck it starts all nice and warm.
Diesel heat is also common in marine applications, especially hydronic heat. Cirrus uses a system similar to what you find in a lot of sailboats, but LP powered. An example
Truma is a German company, and in Europe most the camper vans are diesel, so there's a lot of tech that already supports it.
Another leading tech provider is Webasto, who make similar systems, even a diesel RV cooktop.
Companies like Earthroamer have embraced it obviously because it eliminates an entire fuel source to depend on.
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SkiBumAt50
Upstate NY
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Joined: 05/01/2023
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Grit dog wrote:^I get it. Whatever works best for you is what works best.
The big thing with moisture is volume introduced via external stuff (the wet ski gear) and the lack of good air circulation. The forced air furnace (mouse turd burner lol) does a lot to dry the air but trust me. Few people for a few days in cold weather in a TC will be a challenge to keep humidity and condensation under control. You can. It’s not prohibitive, just a bit of a challenge.
You can charge from the truck somewhat efficiently with a good size DCDC charger.
Still, your engineer sense should guide you from over complicating things like plumbing into the truck fuel tank. Besides those little heaters only use like a half gallon of diesel a day or something minuscule. Nothing a little fuel can and 5 min a day can’t keep full.
If I have any control over it I WILL be doing very similar to you again in the future. And having run a couple TCs thru the gamut from driving to AK to outrunning tornados in the Midwest and boonie docking in the Rockies and cascades, what you’re planning is a great setup.
Cheers!
I understand humidity. That's specifically why I was asking about the dehumidify feature on the new Truma AC that Lance is using. I was wondering if it was like my Canadian friends who use their AC in the winter (Run AC in the winter). When I asked my local dealer guy he had no idea. But if it functions that way? That's a game changer.
Worst case I think a small air-to-air heat exchanger could be fabbed to do air exchange and dry out the camper. Making it look good and fit somewhere is the only problem.
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Grit dog
Black Diamond, WA
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Joined: 05/06/2013
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@mbloof, no claim, the little 8-10kw diesel heaters like one would use in this application use way less power than a typical rv forced air heater.
@skibum, I can’t see a practical use for a diesel coolant heater like a Webasto in your environment and use. Used them in the Arctic to keep from having to idle a diesel truck to stay warm in it. And yes they also preheat the engine but all of todays light duty diesels will light off unassisted down to -20 to -30F anyways and if it’s that cold consistently (like -30) you have a whole bunch of other things that need to be done to the truck to protect it and keep it operational at sustained extreme temperatures, first.
As an engineer, I understand your logic to a point. But just trying to save you some money and complication for things that you maybe haven’t had experience with.
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StirCrazy
Kamloops, BC, Canada
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Joined: 07/16/2003
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notsobigjoe wrote:
What exactly is a diesel heater?
HERE is the top brand names website.
there are others but Espar is the leading brand, there's also Wabasso (might have spelt that wrong) and you have 500 buck Chinese clones that a lot of people get, and they work fine also.
Steve
2014 F350 6.7 Platinum
2016 Cougar 330RBK
1991 Slumberqueen WS100
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StirCrazy
Kamloops, BC, Canada
Senior Member
Joined: 07/16/2003
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mbloof wrote:
It is my understanding that much like a propane furnace a "diesel heater" (read - actually a furnace) draws combustion air from the outside and vents its exhaust to the outside.
The "flame" heats one side of a "heat exchanger" where cabin air is drawn in and blown out on the other side of it.
The CLAIMED current draw of some of the models available are less than the stock OEM Atwood/Suburban/?? propane furnaces.
- Mark0.
The 5KW model I was looking at (still am) uses 36 watts at full power. that's about 0.5 amp less than my furnace that has 1/2 the BTU. so not a huge reduction when it's running full out. here is the espar rating for a similar output as my furnace.
my furnace is 7800BTU
" Fuel Type Diesel
Heat Output 2200W (7500BTU)
Fuel Consumption 0.02 - 0.1 gal/h (0.06 - 0.28 l/h)
Power Consumption 6 - 31W
Rated Voltage 12V"
So, it is quite feasible that I could cut my power usage in half with an espar unit and make my propane last a lot longer in the heating seasons. Also, diesel is a lot easier to find than propane in a lot of the places I go. but I am also looking at Hydronic systems and trying to figure out how hard it would be to retrofit one in.
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