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 > TOW PROBLEM???

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Westronics

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Posted: 01/13/03 09:34pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

tmeek:

Only 5% below GVWR and 8% below GCWR? I'd call that pushing your limits - you are certainly well beyond best towing performance. I am assuming your weights are accurate - you are so close to your limits I hope you are using scales to check your weights.

Folks disagree about whether you should stay at below 80% or 90% of GCWR when towing for best and safest performance, You are past both of those! And that's limiting yourself to under 500 pounds of cargo in your trailer.

It's a stretch anyway you look at it. You're only fooling yourself if you think this is a really good combination. Under your limits? Yes. Under even 90% of GCWR? No.

You are putting at least 50% greater wear and tear on your truck than normal.

Does this mean it's unsafe? No, certainly not. But you are definately pushing your limits by any reasonable measure.

P.S. I freely admit I was definately pushing my limits with my now dead Aerostar even though I was under all my GVWR, GAWR and GCWR limits. I was not unsafe, but was pushing my limits.

Perhaps our disagreement is over the definition of "pushing your limits." Ask yourself this question - would you pull a larger (heavier) trailer with your truck? If the answer is no, then you are pushing your limits. In your case, you'd be very hard pressed to find a larger trailer that you could tow and still be under GVWR/GAWR/GCWR.

P.S. - You are checking your rear GAWR, right?


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Tmeek

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Posted: 01/14/03 08:04am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Westronics:

It seems we are arguing definitions here.

First, the poster I responded to initially made the comment that a 26' trailer on ANY half-ton is a stretch. I find this to be completely misleading. If the gentle poster would have included some other sort of qualifier in addition to the length, I'd have had no issue. But a 26' trailer is well within the safety capability of a half ton. You said so yourself.

Secondly, as to the definition of "stretch"... You suggested that if I would not tow a larger trailer with my truck, then I am stretching its capabilities with the current setup.

My answer is: No - I would not tow a larger unit, as the current one is quite capable of "stretching" my truck's capabilities. The GVWR of the trailer is 5800#, although I'll be da*ned if I know why anyone would want to load it so heavy.

I understand erring on the side of caution - in fact, I have overestimated both my vehicle's curb weight (listed at 4884#) and the trailer tongue weight (actually 550#) in my equations. But I see 80%-90% of the rating as being overly cautious, not that there's anything wrong with it.

The manufacturer lists a maximum safe load for it's product - I consider it a stretch to operate at or above that rating, not at 2%-12% above someone's arbitrary safety cushion.

Now - will a beefier truck do a better job with my 826M? Sure. But a 3/4 ton truck is a lousy daily driver...

Anyway, I appreciate your calling me on my post, as conversations like these always serve to keep me from getting too comfortable and complacent.

I wish you well in your travels and many years of safe, happy camping.


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Westronics

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Posted: 01/14/03 09:13am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Nice answer, tmeek.

Thanks for bringing this discussion back to being "nice."

Westronics

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Posted: 01/14/03 10:01am Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

tmeek:
Quote:

First, the poster I responded to initially made the comment that a 26' trailer on ANY half-ton is a stretch. I find this to be completely misleading. If the gentle poster would have included some other sort of qualifier in addition to the length, I'd have had no issue. But a 26' trailer is well within the safety capability of a half ton. You said so yourself.


To be very clear:

A 26' trailer is always pushing the limits for a 1/2 ton truck. A "normal" 26' trailer will be over the weight limits for virtually any 1/2 ton truck. A "lightweight" or "ultralight" trailer may come in under the weight limits - or may not. It will always be close to the limits, in any case.

This fits my definition of "a stretch" and needs no qualifier.

If one where to state that no 1/2-ton truck should, under any circumstances, tow any 26' trailer, now that would be misleading. It would be more accurate to state that if you have a 1/2-ton vehicle you should be extremely cautious in your choice of 26' trailers, and be very careful in loading up the trailer and tow vehicle to avoid exceeding any of the weight ratings. Now that's accurate. Quite a bit more awkward, though, than simply stating "it's a stretch." And they both mean the same thing.

The expression "a stretch," as used here, means it's possible, but should be done with extreme caution. It does not mean it's impossible. Perhaps it was a poor choice of words to start with? I could agree with that.

But, for the record, I'll say that anyone considering towing a 26' trailer with any 1/2-ton vehicle should do so with extreme caution.

Remember that the "limits" for weight are just that - the limits. They are intended to be the absolute maximum limit - one that should not be exceeded. It's best to stay at under at most 90% of those limits if possible, even lighter if you can. Anything more than 90% of your GCWR is definately not "well within the safety capability," but is, rather, getting quite close to the limits.

One might even say it's a bit of a stretch for the vehicle to be towing that much [emoticon]. Of course, I wouldn't put it quite that way. [emoticon][emoticon]

Tmeek

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Posted: 01/14/03 01:56pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Westronics:

Got a little more free time than you know what to do with? 8^)

If the criterion used is simply the 26' length (as indeed it was), then the statement is misleading. You noted there are light 26'ers, medium, and very heavy 26'ers. Which do you imagine TXiceman meant?

Nope - I don't know either.

Westronics

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Posted: 01/14/03 02:43pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Quote:

Westronics:
Got a little more free time than you know what to do with? 8^)

If the criterion used is simply the 26' length (as indeed it was), then the statement is misleading. You noted there are light 26'ers, medium, and very heavy 26'ers. Which do you imagine TXiceman meant?

Nope - I don't know either.


Too much time? Hmmm.... [emoticon]

I think that even the lightest of 26' trailers could not be pulled with the most robust 1/2-ton vehicle when the trailer is fully loaded. An ultralight 26' trailer that is lightly loaded can be within 1/2-ton specs.

By any measure it's pushing the limits to pull a 26' trailer with a 1/2-ton. A most reasonable statement, since it was NOT an absolute "you can't do it" type of statement.

Now I am one of the first to pipe up when folks say you "can't" tow more than 5,00 (or even 5,500) pounds with a 12 ton. Heck, with my van I could pull almost 6,000 pounds when fully loaded and ready for camping. I'd be at the very edge of my limits, but I could do it.

So, no, I don't like false absolute statements any more than you do, but I recognize that, in this case, the statement was not absolute at all. It was a generalization - and a correct one, at that. There are exceptions, as there are with all generalizations.

Let's go back and look at the orginal statement, shall we?
Quote:

A 26' trailer on any 1/2 ton is a bit of a stretch.


Wow - seems pretty accurate. It implies that one can do it, but you'll be near your limits, if not over them. Nothing misleading there.

You have one of the lightest (if not the lightest) 26' trailers around, and you are fairly close to your limits (95% of GVWR and 92% of GCWR) with only 500 pounds loaded in the trailer - a pretty light load for a 26' trailer, especially when that number includes the water.

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*This Message was edited on 14-Jan-03 02:44 PM by Westronics*


john b

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Posted: 01/14/03 02:52pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Very good thorough answer Tmeek! We need more of these instead of so many umbrella answers!


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Tmeek

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Posted: 01/14/03 02:58pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

*sigh*

Westronics, if you don't understand the context in which I made my original smarta**, sarcastic post, just say so!

(enable Bill Clinton impersonation> It depends on what your definition of IS is. (/Bill Clinton impersonation)

I conclude that IS means IS, and that if he meant "could be" he would have said it.

And that means that YOU are today's Grand Prize Winner here on Semanticalities! Just look what we have for you behind the box where Carol Merrill is now standing!

*Audience OOOOHs and AAAAAHs*

"It' a NEW LIVINGROOM in '70's harvest gold and avacado..."

*This Message was edited on 14-Jan-03 03:00 PM by Tmeek*


Westronics

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Posted: 01/14/03 03:09pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

*sigh* indeed.

Forget it. Definately moving into beating a dead horse territory.

That's just an expression. You know, like "a bit of a stretch" is an expression. [emoticon]

*This Message was edited on 14-Jan-03 03:10 PM by Westronics*


Tmeek

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Posted: 01/14/03 04:57pm Link  |  Print  |  Notify Moderator

Ha!

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